Curse

Ensign · Sep 16, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Flourish > Greater confliguration:
Flourish boosts all attacks, greater confliguration nullifies all physical damage . Necromaners and some monks hate that, but Wariors dont care.

Do you honestly believe this stuff? Or is this just some sort of huge, elaborate joke that you're trying to play on the forum? Because I'm seriously having problems coming to grips with the idea that someone actually believes this.

Hmmm...

Do you do drugs? I mean lots of drugs, like you wake up in the morning, and say 'ah, good morning world! Nothing gets me started like my morning hit of coke before a long day of eating my special cookies until I turn into a teapot! It's so AHHH THE BATS GET AWAY GET AWAY AHHHH NOT AGAIN!!!! *crashes*'

Because that would explain a lot.

Peace,
-CxE

Ollj · Sep 16, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

afraid of the truth sucker?

why should a warrior even care for greater confliguration, yes it supports rangers armor and weakens warirors armor, and what else? Warriors penetrate armor anyways, making armor stronger just puts a smile on the warriors face because you just made armor penetration more usefull for him (relative to classes that dont penetrate armor all day).

How does Greater confliguration defeat flourish?
ah yes, -10-20 armor on warriors, thats like 10-20% armor penetration all the time, wohoo! no wait, rangers do a lot of small damage , more small damages, "additional damage" not more "more damage",single big, hits like warriors. And warriors have what? Runes of Absorbtion, they just absorb 3-5 damage of each hit.

Why would a ranger ever even try to do direct damage on a warrior if theres way better targets?
ah right, because he's you.

Warriors beat the hell out of rangers and mesmers, especially with skills like flourish.
Rangers defeat mesmers and elementalists, especially with skills like Greater Confliguration (mesmers have no elemental armor)

anyways
im not sure if what im doing here makes much more sense than just a nice overview picture, but theres a system behind it, and while creating it it even relieves more systems in the game (and proves them to each other) instead of just nullifiing the sense of the first system.
Sadly I have to finish it and see "the full picture" to see if it makes sense or not...

I would be glad if someone brings some serious arguments instead of pissing me off.

WIP:

neoflame · Sep 16, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Warriors penetrate armor anyways, making armor stronger just puts a smile on the warriors face because you just made armor penetration more usefull for him (relative to classes that dont penetrate armor all day).

You're retarded because damage to the ranger will still be reduced.

Quote:

How does Greater confliguration defeat flourish?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#Rhetorical_use

Quote:

Warriors beat the hell out of rangers and mesmers, especially with skills like flourish.

Oh, right. I forgot that warriors are energy-based melee damage engines, that's why Spirit Shackles owns them so much!

Quote:

Rangers defeat mesmers and elementalists, especially with skills like Greater Confliguration (mesmers have no elemental armor)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

Quote:

I would be glad if someone brings some serious arguments instead of pissing me off.

I feel exactly the same way about you.

Ollj · Sep 16, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

im not impressed in case you try to impress me with wikipedia links that are barely in context.

The armor bonus towards someone with all time armor penetration is not worth the spirit. The more armor the relatively more effective is armor penetration.

your non sequor (to the game) is my comon sense (to the game):
Armors, the primary attribute, the mayority of all skills behaviour and equipment (wands...) are the only constsnts of all classes. Its not THAT hard to make an A defeats B out of only that and notice that some skills are simply "defensive" and better against the class that is normally superior, but just for for some time and not all over in general.
Spirit shackles is a defense against attacks, it really sucks for a ranger, an axe warrior may not care.

theres a short poem to this, just because you fail in insulting:
I bring arguments.
you fail at it.
so stfu!
Heres some raw fish for the trolls...

Gerbill · Sep 16, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Warriors beat the hell out of rangers and mesmers

Ranger + Throw dirt > Warrior
Mesmer + soothing images, spirit shackles, empathy > Warrior

you can't simply state Warriors beat.. [insert class] it depends on the build.
of course you beat a lot of mesmers if most of them are anti-casters... it's not that simple.

KuTeBaka · Sep 16, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

oh of course, Glyph of energy totally owns echo. And echo totally owns quick shot. Hundred blades tottally kills unyeilding aura and make sure you use unyeilding aura against grenths balance!!

Ollj · Sep 16, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

KuTeBaka: clockwise, the other way around, please. And i already sayd the center is "more blurry" than the border because the skills are more similar and the skills ask for less atribute points than the skills outside.

last page: list more "exceptions" please.
the more skills you list the closeer youll come to 1/3 of 2/3... (or less, dunno for sure) think about it.

Gerbill · Sep 17, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Like I said it's not as simple.. you can't look at single skills being better than a single other skill.

You have to take a step back and look at it from a bigger perspective, a full build.

Ensign · Sep 17, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

im not impressed in case you try to impress me

We're not trying to impress you. We're laughing at you as a community and enjoying every minute of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

Glyph of energy totally owns echo.

Can't you read the chart you idiot? Echo owns Glyph of Energy. Duh.

Peace,
-CxE

Tigris Of Gaul · Sep 17, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

hahaha he made a picture

Boofhead · Sep 17, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Well, I thought it was a pretty cool idea, even if it didn't work for every single skill (even if some people think it should).

neoflame · Sep 17, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Hi, you're still retarded. Saying that Greater Conflagration does not beat Flourish is a strawman argument because I never said that it does; I said that neither skill has a bearing on the other. I can't even understand your poor attempt at the English language that you've so helpfully bolded; but, as far as I can tell, you're arguing since that only almost everything in the game is different between professions, you can honestly boil everything - every skill, every profession - down to rock/paper/scissors, and all I can say is have fun with your bullshit formula. (Incidentally, this was another non sequitur - my original comment was that saying Rangers are better than Mesmers strictly because Greater Conflagration exists, and Mesmers don't have elemental-specific armor, doesn't make any sense.)

Gerbill · Sep 17, 2005, 01:08 AM // 01:08

*sigh*
I really don't care for all this.. the whole image etc.. if it's right or wrong..

simply put, you can't look at 1 skill beating another, 1 skill might fit in with your build better than if they'd be compared 1 on 1. look at the bigger perspective, a full build.

please!

Dark Kanaye · Sep 17, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

afraid of the truth sucker?

why should a warrior even care for greater confliguration, yes it supports rangers armor and weakens warirors armor
How does Greater confliguration defeat flourish?
ah yes, -10-20 armor on warriors, thats like 10-20% armor penetration all the
Warriors beat the hell out of rangers and mesmers, especially with skills like flourish.
Rangers defeat mesmers and elementalists, especially with skills like Greater Confliguration (mesmers have no elemental armor)
WIP:

You've obviously never fought a R/W, or at least, not one that knew what he/she was doing, or a good anti-melee caster. You losing the entire bonus from your armor cause of Greater Conflagration makes you look like a chew toy for any good R/W, especially since it increases the ranger's armor to be stronger than yours was even before the spirit was up. Throw winter+fur lined armor on top of that, and you're only getting laughed at trying to do anything to the ranger, and thats w/o taking stances into consideration. Other kinds of rangers would have a great load of fun proving you wrong as well, JI+Penetrating attack+Greater Conflagration=one dead as hell warrior. Flourish=ooh, I can use my attack skills more often and get energy. Greater Conflag=oooooh, that war's attacks wont do crap to me, assuming he actually hits me

, while increasing the dmg I (and everyone else on my team that did phys dmg) does to him! And if the team knows the ranger is using Greater Conflagration, it won't have any bad side-affects like making some of their skills useless, while it will most likely do that to people on your team. Not a hard arguement there...and mesmer's dont need elemental def armor, they've got mantra of flame, frost, lightning, and cold, which take a large % of ele dmg off, while giving them energy each time they take ele dmg. Spiteful spirit+insidious parasite+empathy is also great fun to use on melee'ers. Test your warrior against things like this and start the timer, gaurantee you that the time wont be very high unless you have some uber healers on your team. Also, I have a question, why are you trying to argue with a very well known member of IQ on this when you obviously haven't really gone up against someone who understands the potential power of Greater Conflagration? I mean, sure, I'll admit that I dont believe IQ's members know everything about the game, but they sure as hell know a lot more than..oh...I'd guess around 85-90% of players. Wow....I need to stop coming to forums so often, I see things like this and practically write an essay lol. Well, thats my 2 cents (dont know how to make the cents sign lol). Try to prove that you're right again if you want, I'm sure someone else will prove it wrong, or maybe I will..again...and to everyone on here, HF!

Ollj · Sep 17, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

nice essay. Sorry i forgot the only way to beat rangers is to put more rangers in your team

and one mesmer with spirit shackles and empathy.

I highly agree that warriors tend to be the most stupid and rangers tend to be the most intelligent players just because of the choice of classes. If you search arguments for defeating warriors, start there.

neoflame, noone likes things like you in forums.
That also goes to the whole arrogance in here.

Hippie Crack · Sep 17, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

The armor bonus towards someone with all time armor penetration is not worth the spirit. The more armor the relatively more effective is armor penetration.

It doesn't matter how much armor penetration you have. Unless you have over 100% armor penetration, having more armor is still gonna make your attacks deal less damage to me. Sure, having more armor makes your armor penetration more effective, but i still have more armor, and your only penetrating a % of that extra armor.

Deathlord · Sep 17, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

I'm assuming everyone that bothered to reply on this has done so fully aware that OllJ is probably just giving everyone a laugh right? As much as I would like to understand your awesome formula, I can't, and neither can any other living soul that has played GW for atleast a few hours. This being said, yall shouldn't spend more than a minute or two on a reply... unless it's that hard to type LOL.

Dark Kanaye · Sep 17, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathlord

I'm assuming everyone that bothered to reply on this has done so fully aware that OllJ is probably just giving everyone a laugh right? As much as I would like to understand your awesome formula, I can't, and neither can any other living soul that has played GW for atleast a few hours. This being said, yall shouldn't spend more than a minute or two on a reply... unless it's that hard to type LOL.

I can't help it....I get a little (ok, extremely) carried away sometimes lol.

Skylancer16 · Sep 17, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

This thread should be closed just for pure uselessness.(if thats a word)

Tigris Of Gaul · Sep 17, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

hahaha damn a picture